A Day Without Notes!
The other week, like usual, I spent a whole day working in my office. Nothing unusual in that, I know. What made it different was that, for the first time in my career in IT, I didn't launch the Notes client once!
Why? Because I used Aptana Studio instead. Not because I was working with Domino via the Aptana plugin, which in theory I could do, but because I was building a LAMP-based site. Shock, horror.
Me messing with PHP is nothing new, although it's been a while since I did. What was different this time was that I was being paid to do so. A good friend of mine (one of the two best men at my wedding) who works for a large international company needed a web-based system building and didn't care what technology it was based on. He needed it doing quickly and wanted to avoid dealing with any of the larger IT outfits he's used to dealing with.
Learning something new is almost impossible when you have small kids and a full-time job. That's why I relished the chance of using a SQL-based approach and a more "traditional" web language like PHP. Although I must point out that PHP was a good fit for the requirements. I didn't just make it fit because I wanted it to. I'd never do that. Notes could have done the job but there was nothing that made it the right tool though.
Using PHP and SQL was fun and a breath of fresh air. Having a relational database to interrogate made giving the customer what they wanted soooooo much easier.
Sign of things to come? I doubt it. Notes is where the money is for me at the moment and so that's where I'll be staying. If Notes does (as so many people believe it will) start to die out at some point I hope to carve myself a career in either support of legacy Notes apps and/or migration to Sharepoint or whatever is the flavour of the day at the time.
For now it's back to having Notes running all day every day. Did I miss it for the day it didn't launch? What do you think!?
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I have more and more days like that. I use Thunderbird because it is better at managing multiple email identities, I use Sunbird for calendaring with multiple calendars from different sources. I do quite a bit of PHP based stuff, but generally starting from a content management system such as Wordpress or Joomla! Notes is still the best for things it is the best at, designing fast collaborative applications often things that automate internal paper processes, but more and more I find the problems I want to solve don't have Notes as the solution to them. Having worked on the edges of some "migrate to Sharepoint" projects I can't see that being flavour of the month for long (possibly not long enough to migrate everything on to it. It just cost so much to do anything useful with it.
Jake, if ever you have to do any migration work from LotusNotes to SharePoint let me know. I am working on a project of that nature now and would be happy to share my experiences.
Ed
Thanks for the offer Ed. Might be in touch at some point in years to come.
Do you think you could sum up your findings in a paragraph or two here for now?
Hi Jake, I'll send you an email to start with. I'm sure others would be interested in the SharePoint to Lotus Notes findings but I'd just need to sanitise the text first.
This chap has an intersteing blog on the same subject:
http://migratenotes.wordpress.com/
Interesting. I always found it a pity that you stopped doing PHP stuff on codestore.
I also think you will find Sharepoint pretty boring. You have always had your very own way of doing things in Domino. With Sharepoint I think this is even harder to accomplish. I am also surprised that you have not looked at the xPages stuff. It is web only (so definetely your area). How funny that I had the same thought about using a SQL backend lately. Although I have never done much SQL stuff I am often baffled how fast you can achieve certain tasks within MySQL (not all).
Hi Jake, what version of Lotus Notes and/or Domino are you primarily working on at the moment. I more interested in your experiences with xpages and all the new staff in v8?
Peer pressure Henning ;o)
I only do things my own way with Domino because it makes me.
I'm still using Domino 7 (client/servers). I have a copy of 8.5 somewhere and have looked briefly at XPages. Not enough to see if all the fuss is well-deserved though. Will do when I get chance.
.
The IT managers at my company have decided to migrate everything to Outlook and Sharepoint, over the next 2-3 years. The new hardware is already here. We've been using Lotus Notes from v3-v7. Their arguments, of course, don't make sense. I guess they don't need to make sense. I've been asking for Notes8 for the past year, and they kept pushing it off. I realized recently that it was a political move by the IT managers. They wanted to compare Microsoft products with Notes7, not with Notes8. It was just a matter of time before enough pro-Microsoft managers got in charge of IT. They replaced outgoing Java/Notes developers with kids fresh out of college, who only have Microsoft skill sets, and no opinions.
Anyway, the decision has already been made. No getting out of it. I'll be at 'sphere in 2009. I'm using that time to make a big decision. Stay with my company and rewrite everything with Microsoft Sharepoint/ASP (they will provide training). Or jump ship to another company. I am a certified Java and Notes developer. It's really difficult to throw away technical skills. I could certainly be proficient in a new toolset. I don't need to prove that to myself. but life is so short! I'd rather spend my free time perusing other interests.
@Anon... Don't be too put off by the "Anti-notes" mindset. Frustrating as it may be, but in the end it's all just technology, and learning more of it only increases your options.
If they're offering you training into new tech's just take it. Get some experience then show them your ar$e on the way out the door. More technology the better I say.. also "know your enemy" ;)
I haven't launched a Notes/Designer client since my last day at my previous job almost 2 years ago, and I don't miss it one bit!
Doing the whole Flex/Flash/Coldfusion thing these days, which is a lot more fun than boring corporate Notes apps :)
Still subscribed to and reading Codestore though, even though it doesn't relate to my job any more.
I couldn't imagine life today without launching the Notes client. I'm not saying that Notes is the end-all-be-all, but lets face it, Notes is pretty damn slick.
I've created many applications in Notes in a fraction of the time it would have taken using other technology. Additionally, I've learned using nothing but the help files (and Codestore). That's the mark of a good system if you ask me. (and a good website.)
Yes, I've been laughed at by other IT guys ... but I usually find that these are people who haven't seen the product since v4. Alot's changed since then.
I think Notes is a damn fine app and it's made a huge difference in my life (... business ... pocket book) and it has done the same for my clients.
So, let the Microsofter's say what they will, but when you get down to brass tacks, you'll generally find that they're only repeating what they've been told ... and they usually no idea what's really under the hood.
Got into Sharepoint this year, and liked it after 10 years on Notes. - I thought this is something like notes should have done....Domino web templates are truly horrid. Sharepoint comes with tons of good looking useable stuff out of the box, but does generate a ton of code.
Just got a Sharepoint server, to complement my domino server, and am doing about 50-50 sp/notes.
They do integrate quite nicely.
I've been reading this blog, "Notes Migration Blog", which covers a huge Notes-to-Sharepoint migration project started back in September of 2007. Here's a quote from this post:
http://migratenotes.wordpress.com/2008/03/26/results/
"I’ve seen no evidence that anyone really is having a successful migration that saves them money. If anyone does have evidence, feel free to share it.
But as I look hard at the two technologies, I see a few things… and this may show my bias, but it is what I see:
1. SharePoint ties everyone to MS Office. Why? Most other web technologies are working to eliminate desktop products, not push your web site down into your desktop. SharePoint does not take your enterprise to the web, it marries you to Microsoft Products at a very deep level.
2. There is no SharePoint expertise internal to the corporate world. Consultants and business partners have the majority of skills, and very few major projects are done without shelling out money to them.
3. Microsoft does not yet have their training together. The only available training that I have found is through their business partners. I went to that training. I found it very basic.
In general, SharePoint feels like a big old marketing scam to me. It doesn’t do as much out of the box as Microsoft would have you believe, but it does give Microsoft and their partners a good chunk of money. A decision to go with SharePoint is a decision to tie yourself into their full product line."
The guy seems pretty balanced in his evaluation of the two systems. Anybody who's doing such a migration should read this.
Here's another jem:
"Purely from a job satisfaction perspective, SharePoint is drudgery. Learning new techniques amounts to a little bit of time reading up on how they are supposed to work, and a lot of time working around the quirks about how it REALLY works.
I’ve been downright thrilled with my recent Domino work on the other hand — I’ve working with apps that have been around for many years, and have become heaps of mangled spaghetti code. Cleaning them up, re-designing to match the current business needs, and converting them to web interfaces… Truly enjoyable work."
Okay ... one more ... I just can't help myself.
"Phase 1: “SharePoint can do anything. Let’s migrate everything.” These are the folks who have read the marketing, but never worked with the product. They just don’t have a realistic sense of what makes it difficult.
Phase 2: “SharePoint sucks. It is a horribly immature product that cannot do much of anything, and any real complexity takes custom .NET coding.” Noobs. People who haven’t yet learned the subtleties of how to piece things together in SharePoint, and what kind of advanceed customizations can be done with SharePoint Designer. (And yes, I was here when I started this blog.)
Phase 3: “Look at all of these cool WebParts I’ve written to help us get the most from SharePoint” Sadly, most consultants I see are here. They say they are SharePoint experts, but really, they are .NET experts who front-end their code through SharePoint. Their first reaction to anything complex is to fall back into custom coding. But they can do more with SharePoint than most corporate folks, so there are a lot of these folks out there building SharePoint environments.
Phase 4: “SharePoint can do a lot more than people think, if they know how to work it.” This is the first level of expertise that I’d actually hire to work on a project. They understand how to do all the basics, and also can work the XML/XSLT to tweak the UI, they know how to create complex sets of workflows, lists, and libraries, then pull them all together into a slick interface. They know how and when to integrate InfoPath, and how to throw in C# code-behinds instead of giving us custom DLLs and webparts to deploy.
Phase 5: “SharePoint is just a tool. I have expertise with it and can make it do quite a bit, but let’s evaluate it alongside other technology options and pick the best solution.” Here we go. This is where we all want to end up — knowing the strengths and weaknesses of multiple platforms, and matching solutions with business needs."
You can read every entry, start to finish in about two hours or so. He sticks to the subject and doesn't post if he doesn't have something pretty interesting to say.
Best regards,
Rob:-]
Well you're right Rob in just about all you say. I like developing in Notes, Sharepoint is drudgery, but the new designer has helped a lot....Proper dev environment.
The fact remains that my user base for my main app is fairly unsophisticated computer wise (Real Estate Agents). The app was ext nd based and I thought it was wonderful, dead easy to use etc etc.
Came as a hell of a shock when I was told that it was considered difficult to understand.
Rewrote the front end in sharepoint in a weekend, and made calls to my Domino server for the data....Huge change...my clients love it, no training required...everybody happy.
Microsoft just seem to be good at presenting things in a way that people 'get'. - I can't explain it, but it's well popular here in Australia, which sadly Notes isn't anymore.
Sorry Jake, think we're wandering off topic here.
Hmmm... have you seen how many Notes/Domino jobs there are on Jobserve? After spending 10 years developing Notes Web/client apps I am now developing & supporting ASP.NET/C#/SQL Server app. It was alot of effort & time to change but definately worth it.
Yes, unfortunately the market is not in Notes anymore...
It is good that Jake covers many other technologies, php, javascript extensions, etc...
On my side, I am also trying to figure out a way to migrate sucessfully notes content to sharepoint and I dont think they will like to spend on a 3rd party product/support at this moment.
Company I work for decided (politically) to stop Notes development to do Sharepoint and SQL and .net technologies.
It has been a bit tough being a developer since Notes 3 to 8 But I think it's worth learning all new technology.
Sharepoint has exploded in the market but from the development perspective is still really 'green' ... and I don't think Microsoft anticipated that.
In my case, we still use Notes for email (so far) so it's been quite challenging because Sharepoint has many 'out of the box' features but when you use LDAP forms authentication...everything falls apart... and I had to override many things... but with all that pressure (and bit of training) it all went ok... I even had to do single sign on to domino apps using sharepoint/.net forms authentication...
Still in the learning curve like all sharepoint developers.
(rememeber when Notes 4 and lotus script came out ?)
:)
We are also being 'told' that we are to migrate to Outlook/Exchange/SharePoint by our parent company (who's other companies are mainly MS shops). I have the choice of re-training (they will pay) in .NET/SharePoint etc or jumping ship to stick with Notes. I've been developing on domino for about 8 years and think it's the dogs whatsits, flexible, rapid and fun. I don't think SharePoint will ever give me the same job satisfaction... but I'm going to stick around, get re-trained, help in migration and then see what happens.
Thanks for the 'Notes Migration Blog' link - I will read with interest, although I know I can't discourage the decision makers, they have invested too much already and I feel they are blinkered by the 'single AD', 'single mail address book', theory...
Will always remain a regular reader on here however, great read and is an absolute mine of information.
Jake,
How come you decided to go with PHP? Why not Ruby on Rails? If the technology was not important, I definitely would have chosen RoR.
Just curious.
Hi Michael,
It didn't seem the right fir for RoR. To me RoR is for "web 2" type websites where it's a list of pages submitted by the user --- ala digg.com or twitter etc. The app I was working on wasn't like this. I'm sure RoR could have done it. Just didn't seem right.
Also I didn't want the hassle of setting up and maintaining a RoR install. PHP/MySQL comes out of the box and has myriad hosts available. Same isn't true of RoR.
Jake
Working with Lotus and Domino.Doc for many years there is one feature I have not found in Sharepoint environment, that is the unique document ID (in Domino.Doc) and UNID with methods to identify and use these for document management purposes.